HelloMasters Episode 18

Is voice-based marketing a hype? Do you need to adjust your marketing plans for 2020? Or is it too early for ROI? In our 18th HelloMasters podcast, I talk to two pioneers in Voice Marketing. Jeroen de Bakker, Director Product & Growth, Talpa Network Radio, and Maarten Lens-Fitzgerald, Head of Voice Marketing at Nodes. Jeroen is also a HelloMaaS advisory board member.

With over 50% of all online searches via voice, especially in the car, mobile phone and also more and more via devices such as Amazon Echo, a major change in digital search behavior has started. What does voice marketing entail? What is the impact on marketing and brand building, particularly for products? How can brands make good use of this trend?

Listen to the two pioneers in Voice Marketing in the Netherlands and learn the do and don’ts of voice marketing!

HelloMasters Episode 17

Retail marketing is complex and fast. If you lead marketing and customer engagement at AS Watson, the largest retail company in the Netherlands, it is key to connect with your customers online, via mobile, in print, and in stores to remain relevant. Quite a challenging job with thousands of stores, short product shelf life and of course the rapidly changing marketing landscape.

Tune into our 17th HelloMasters podcast where we talk to Brenda Smith, Director Marketing and Customer Experience at A.S. Watson Health & Beauty Benelux, the owner of retailer Trekpleister, Kruidvat and Prijsmepper in the Netherlands, Belgium, and France. The AS Watson Group (ASW) has evolved into the world’s largest international health and beauty retailer in 25 markets worldwide.

The group has 12 retail brands with 15,200 stores that range from health and beauty, perfume, cosmetics, food, electronics, and fine wine. Brenda has worked in marketing for over 20 years with previous positions at JDE (Douwe Egberts) and Sara Lee in the United States and the Netherlands.

HelloMasters Episode 16

Nearly every company is involved in some form of digital transformation, but how many are actually seeing it pay off? The answer is surprisingly few. New research by Bain & Company finds that only 8% of global companies have been able to achieve their targeted business outcomes. Executives have started all kinds of change programs to survive and thrive in today’s erratic business climate.  From digital transformation, innovation labs, agile and scrum, self-steering teams, and internal startups. Times are changing, but what do you really need to be successful in today’s business climate? 

Today we talk with Fortune 500 board room consultant, keynote speaker (from WEF in Davos to TED talks) and * drumroll* HelloMaaS advisory board member Charlene Li from San Fransisco. I first learned about Charlene in 2008 at the SXSW conference in Austin where she published her bestselling book Groundswell, a great inspiration, and framework for the management consulting work I did at that time with Philips in Amsterdam, followed by Samsung and their global marketing team out of Korea. 

I had the great privilege to work directly with Charlene when I headed up social media at JPMorganChase a few years later. Charlene and I worked side by side and together with the c-suite of the bank in digital transformation. To add to her already impressive resume, she’s the New York Times bestselling author of six books, including her newest release, hot off the press this September, The Disruption Mindset: Why Some Businesses Transform While Others Fail. “To be competitive, it’s no longer enough to be innovative – you must have a strategy for disruptive growth, a plan to identify and seize an opportunity no one else has the audacity or confidence to reach for.”

It begs the question of what it takes for a company to be disruptive. What kind of structures, rules, and regulations does a company need in order to enable this?  “Disruptive organizations of any size have three beliefs that drive them: openness (speed and access of information); agency and bias for action.” Noticeable is that companies may know what it takes, and can see the benefits, but still choose not to pursue the opportunity: “Most organizations know what to do, and still choose not to go into it because the implications are just too disruptive for them to handle.”

Learn more about Charlene and connect with her for advice on HelloMaaS. 

Topics

[00:00:00] Intro HelloMasters

[00:00:30] Introduction Louise

[00:00:50] Quote from Charlene’s book 

“Growth is painful. Change is painful. But nothing is as painful as staying stuck where you don’t belong.” 

“Only 8% of global companies have been able to achieve their targeted business outcomes through digital transformation.” – Louise 

[00:02:20] Introduction Charlene Li

[00:03:40] Why does Charlene do what she does?

[00:04:00] Proudest Achievement

“Writing my first book. There’s nothing like the first one.” – Charlene

[00:05:10] Are books still the best way for Charlene to convey her thinking? 

“I dont think of it as just as a book. It’s one artifact. Books are proven to be very resilient. People still love to have them.” – Charlene

“Why should we force people to learn and absorb new ideas in only one format?” – Charlene

“It was the process of writing the book that got all my ideas on paper.” – Charlene

[00:07:00] Researching methods

[00:08:50] Getting the right people at the table

“I tend to talk to the top leaders, because they can give you the full spectrum.” – Charlene

“Often we think about the digital part of digital transformation, and kind of assume that the transformation part will just take care of itself.”- Charlene

[00:10:40] Modus operandi 

“Having outside expertise is extremely helpful. But to wholesale outsource it to someone else is a huge mistake.” – Charlene

“The places where I see this has worked, is where it’s driven from the top ánd the bottom.” – Charlene

“We have shrunk the power distance inside an organisation. Which makes it easier to align entire organisations against a common objective.” – Charlene

[00:12:20] What kind of industries did you speak to?

“I wanted to get as many perspectives as possible.”

“I didn’t want to learn from the usual suspects – Google, Uber, etc. – because people think I can’t be like them.”

“I wanted to look at organizations that the rest of us can relate to.”

[00:14:30] Summary of her learnings

“It’s not disruption that creates growth, it’s growth that is disruptive.”

“Most organizations know what to do, and still choose not to go into it because the implications are just too disruptive for them to handle.”

“What can get people excited and aligned is a simple thing that disruptive companies do really well: the focus on future customers.”

“The companies who have a clear idea who that customer is, will make the hard decisions today to chase after that customer of tomorrow.”

[00:16:30] Startup vs corporates – operating models

“Disruptive organizations of any size have three beliefs that drive them: openness (speed and access of information); agency; bias for action.” 

“Startups can only focus on future customers, because they have no current customers.”

[00:20:10] Myths in transformation

“Growth begins at the end of your comfort zone. If you want this to be comfortable, it’s not. It’s called transformation and disruptive for a reason.”

[00:22:00] Mindset required

“You may want to just push the easy button […] But transformation require a huge amount of change.”

[00:25:40] Companies that failed 

[00:27:45] Type of mentality needed

“Leadership is all about creating change. If you’re not creating change you’re not a leader, you’re a manager.”

“Movement are important because you’re about to go on a journey that is very difficult.”

[00:32:10] Chief Digital Officer – should digital transformation be owned

“CDO’s are very helpful. But another good model is when everybody is a part of it through distributed leadership. That’s the best solution.”

“The problem with a CDO is that other C-suites will brush of their responsibilities to him/her.”

“I can usually tell if innovation or transformation is happening. That’s when people look really distressed.”

[00:37:00] Moving away from old thinking

‘You can work from anywhere and have a highly distributed team. However, it is a lot of easier if everyone in the same place.”

“You have to work extra hard to get that cultural component when you’re working with a remote team. We usually get those from the soft skills of working together.”

“Shared experience are key to build your culture. Stories that you tell each other, videos that you share.”

[00:41:10] Use of technologies

[00:42:00] Why should people read Charlene’s book?

“All of us are facing disruptions in our lives. In our work, communities and societies.”

“How do you live in a world of chaos and flux?”

[00:44:35] Outro HelloMasters

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HelloMasters Episode 14

Our guest on our 14th HelloMasters episode can rightfully be called a Dutch marketing veteran. Mark Appel, Global Marketing Director at Exact, joined us in the VondelCS studio in Amsterdam to talk about digital transformation, important skill sets, the right company culture, and Max Verstappen.

Apple

Mark started his career as an Account Executive at Apple. Without a finished degree, a role in sales gave him the freedom to tailor the job to his own wishes and beliefs. “I do not have such a theoretical background, which means I am a pragmatic guy. I start doing things, roll up my sleeves.” Even though Apple provided plenty of existing sales decks, Mark put those all aside and created his own. The start of his own marketing, as he explains: “I always try to create my own story.”

Digital Marketing and Transformation

With over 15 years of experience, Mark can rightfully be called a seasoned marketer. He has been working at Exact for the past 8 years. We asked him about the rise of digital marketing and digital transformation and his experience: “Eight years ago I started that digital transformation. But I just didn’t call it that way.” Within Exact, he states: “Without a plan upfront regarding digital transformation, we just started. We adopted the possibilities of technology at that moment.”

Tip for CEOs

Mark believes that CEOs can play a pivotal role within digital transformation, but it requires a certain mindset: “CEO’s tend to see marketing as a cost center, but it really is a growth engine.” However, unfortunately, not every leader is fully up to par when it comes to this: “If you still have to explain the importance of digital marketing to your boss, you’ve already lost.” He explains that at Exact there are rarely discussions when it comes to the importance of marketing: “If we want to grow, then we also need to grow our marketing budgets. That’s a given fact.” We understand that.

Max Verstappen

Exact has been the sponsor of Dutch Formula 1 favorite Max Verstappen. A very fun, but also an informative partnership, as Mark states. In the beginning, they wanted to push Max as a person and brand everywhere, but the data told differently. “We are using Max especially in the upper funnel area and then also mainly in events.” Getting Max onboard also had a noticeable impact internally: “Everyone was really proud to have Max within the team. Also with employee branding, it helped a lot. We were able to attract people we couldn’t reach before.”

Company culture

Parallel to introducing new technologies and digital transformation is experimentation. Asking Mark how he tries to stimulate within Exact, he answers: “I really believe that things start at the top. Looking at the teams that I’m responsible for, I need to create an environment where they feel – let’s say – encouraged to fail.” According to him, this mindset is essential in creating the right company culture: “Even if you see that things are going wrong, let it happen. That’s how you learn.”

Topics

[00:00:00] Intro HelloMasters

[00:01:05] Intro Mark Appel

[00:01:15] Intro HelloMaaS

[00:02:00] Mark and the start of his career at Apple

[00:03:28] CX = BB x DG

Customer Experience is the combination of Brand Building and Demand Generation. – Mark

[00:04:15] Mark about the Ironman Triathlon

I’m always looking for the max. Out of myself, out of my teams. – Mark

[00:06:00] Bio hacking

I do not have such a theoretical background, which means I am a pragmatic guy. I start doing things, roll up my sleeves. – Mark

I believe in organic growth, I believe in serendipity. That’s how I live and how I act. – Mark

[00:07:00] Mark’s career between Apple and Exact

I didn’t have a study, so I started in sales. – Mark

[00:08:22] Marketing leads

I think about ten years ago, technological developments within marketing were accelerating. I like technology, I like to adopt it, which brought me to Exact. – Mark

[00:09:45] The importance of product within a team

I strongly believe that product and marketing will integrate with each other. – Mark

[00:11:25] Digital transformation within Exact

Eight years ago I started that digital transformation. But I didn’t call it that way. It was maybe more digital marketing. – Mark

Without a plan up front regarding digital transformation, we just started. [..] Right now we’re in the middle of it. It was not a pre-defined plan, rather just adopting the possibilities of technology. – Mark

[00:13:15] Tips for CEOs

I hear that people still need to explain to their marketing manager, director, or even CMO, that digital is becoming an important part in the marketing arena. If you still have to explain this, you lost a battle and are way off. – Mark

CEO’s tend to see marketing as a cost centre, but it really is a growth engine. – Mark

If we want to grow, then we also need to grow our marketing budgets. That’s a given fact. – Mark

[00:16:15] Team Exact and skill sets

I want to build up knowledge and skill sets within the company. I want to be less dependent on external companies or agencies. – Mark

Marketing is about building reach and trying to recognize behavior. – Mark

We can never outsource our problem. – Mark

I always encourage the team to broaden their scope. Ten years ago it was good to focus on just creative, but today you need to broaden your scope as a sound and solid marketeer. – Mark

We’ve adopted scrum within the marketing team. It’s about being sure that you can do each other’s work and fill in the gaps. – Mark

[00:19:10] Scrum methodology

The scrum master is the owner of the process and the people manager. – Mark

Each team is end-to-end responsible for their efforts. – Mark

Scrum is about self-steering teams, which means responsibility. You need to be even more involved. – Mark

[00:21:25] Marketing Mix and Max Verstappen

We were able to see where Max works within the marketing mix, and where he doesn’t. It didn’t work as well in the bottom or the middle of the funnel as it did in the upper funnel. – Mark

It was difficult to make Max Verstappen relevant for the business that we are in. – Mark

Everyone was really proud to have Max within the team. Also with the employee branding it helped a lot. – Mark

Max really helped with us getting the right people in. We were struggling with that before. – Mark

[00:24:20] Diversity

Diversity is something we pay a lot of attention to.

[00:25:05] Learning moments of Mark

We really try to get traction internationally and we learned that every country has its own story.

[00:27:45] Creating the right company culture

I really believe that things start at the top. Looking at the teams that I’m responsible for, I need to create an environment where they feel – let’s say – encouraged to fail. – Mark

I always create room for people to experiment and fail, because that is the only way to learn. Even if you see that things are going wrong, let it happen. That’s to learn. – Mark

[00:30:00] Importance of freelancers

We have freelancers in our company, but for very specific areas. But I first want ourselves to have an understanding of our problem and how to solve it. – Mark

[00:32:00] Advice for 21-year old Mark

Be patient and believe in yourself. Do the things that you believe should be done. – Mark

I see myself in the youngsters in our company. We see and recognize their talent, so be confident that you will be able to leverage that talent. And we will give you that opportunity. – Mark

[00:33:40] New way of managing

I give them a lot of freedom, but also a lot of responsibility. And I really try to make them understand what responsibility is about. – Mark

[00:34:50] Keeping up your knowledge

[00:36:00] Use of social media

The good thing about social is, if you don’t want to follow me, you unfollow me. – Mark

[00:37:08] Outro

Hearstlab welcomes HelloMaaS with a 250.000 euro investment

Amsterdam, 17 september – HelloMaaS, which launched earlier this year, has raised over one million in pre-seed investments. HelloMaaS is the SaaS platform for flexible marketing teams and is the first participant of HearstLab, the incubator of Hearst Netherlands. HearstLab will invest 250.000 euro, offer office space and will open her network of employees and partners at Hearst Netherlands and New York.

With HelloMaaS, founder Louise Doorn is part of a select group of 1.6% of Dutch female founders. She’s one of the few in this group who has managed to raise more than 1 million in pre-seed investments. The majority of investments made in HelloMaaS is done by women. All investors involved are motivated by a research done by the Boston Consulting Group in 2018, which states that women-led startups have a financial return rate of up to 2.5 times higher than average.

HearstLab

The startups that participate in the HearstLab program are startups that are innovating in media, innovation or technology and are all female led. Over 2.200 startups have been reviewed by HearstLab over the last three years. HelloMaaS is one of 23 startups that were chosen to receive investments by the Lab.

HelloMaaS is one of two startups that were chosen to enroll in HearstLab Netherlands. Louise Doorn: “HearstLab is a particularly successful incubator for startups. The network and dedication of the Hearst employees and the lab shows in the excellent financial return of the startups that have been enrolled so far. For HelloMaaS, which will operate in both the Netherlands and the US, this is an extraordinary opportunity.”

About HelloMaaS

Louise Doorn is the founder of HelloMaaS, a Dutch-American marketing tech startup with offices in Amsterdam and New York. MaaS stands for Marketing as a Service. HelloMaaS is a marketing platform that allows companies to build their marketing team on demand, by offering them direct access to the know-how and execution power of top freelance marketers in the Netherlands. The platform has tools that improve team performance and marketing planning, allowing companies to work more effectively and cost friendly. For companies with a lower budget, HelloMaaS offers fixed-price packages as marketing services.

HelloMaaS is advised by internationally renowned marketeers and entrepreneurs such as Charlene Li (CEO and Principal Analyst at Altimeter Group and author of New York Times bestseller ‘Groundswell), Jeroen de Bakker (CMO – Strategic marketing & digital transformation radio at Talpa Network) and Jeremy Brook (CMO Deliveroo, Australia).

HelloMasters Episode 13

In our thirteenth HelloMasters podcast episode, we speak to Rachel Gordon. Few people can truly talk about corporate innovation from a 360 perspective. However, our expert guest has over 20 years of experience driving corporate innovation in Europe and the US; on the brand side at Pepsi, Nestle, Virgin, and the NBA and now in a new VC/venture studio in New York. We’re super proud to have her on our podcast

Keys to drive corporate innovation

According to Rachel, there are a couple of important keys to success in driving corporate innovation in a global environment.

Internal vs External mindset

Firstly, Rachel speaks about the internal vs external mindset: “Often when you’re in an organization, you spend so much time focusing on internal stakeholders and how internally, the company perceives itself. It can be very all-consuming. It’s hard to think about the rest of the world, and what’s going on there.”

Companies who are successful with innovation (and generally) are companies who are constantly looking at the outside world – and how it is changing. Or at least, a portion of the population working inside the business is “out of the house” exploring insights and trends but also partnerships and ecosystems and how NOT how to do everything on your own.”

A major trend in the future is the eco-system idea of partnering and not trying to do everything by yourself. By the way – it’s likely that if you have an idea for a new product, service or business: someone is already working on it!”

Operating systems within a corporation

Secondly, Rachel indicates that an organizational “operating system” needs to be in place to support innovation: “The second thing is about organizational structures and systems in the organization – the operating system. This consists of many elements. In a nutshell, it means a C-suite and board-level focus on innovation. You also need the equivalent resources to implement i.e. funding.”

Use of incentives

Thirdly, Rachel explains that companies need to incentivize for innovation differently to mainstream incentives in organizations: “At the moment, the incentives to innovate work in the same way as people in the main businesses are incentivized! There is room for rethinking how to create incentives for innovation as these are different jobs which are entrepreneurial and they should attract people who are attracted by a different compensation scheme.”

The right people

Lastly, Rachel talks about people. She says that innovation experts are very much needed and that organizations need to build up the innovation function in the same way that the marketing or insights function is treated. “Finally, it’s also important to focus on people! I have a certain point of view on this. What you really need from a people perspective is innovation experts. This is a specific capability that is a function. In some organizations, it’s considered part of marketing, but in others, it is a function in itself. I think, increasingly, it’s becoming understood and recognized as an actual domain that needs to be treated inside big organizations the same way as marketing or insights are treated. It’s still early days for that!”

Rachel has given us her expert advice on the magic, frontiers on what she wants to see in the future of innovation. To read more on her career on innovation, as well as her insights on innovation from a 360 perspective, listen to the full podcast.

Or go to Spotify or iTunes.

HelloMasters Episode 12

We have a familiar voice for this twelfth episode of our HelloMasters series. You might recognize our guest Rado Raykov, CEO at holler.live, from the podcast we did about startup founders a while ago. He’s back today to discuss his own venture, the importance of feedback, fundraising and the importance of marketing. We do this with the help of another familiar voice, our co-host Ellen Bark-Lindhout, co-founder of Collider Amsterdam.

Holler.live

Holler.live allows customers to immediately and intuitively express your feelings, through the use of an app or browser add-on. We asked Rado about his motivation and reasoning to start his own company: “As a consumer myself, I’m often very frustrated by how I am expected to jump through hoops if I want to share my opinion back with decision-makers of companies that serve me.”

Importance of feedback

The way companies currently assess customer feedback is often very onesided or misunderstood. Ratings are just a snapshot of an overall experience at a certain moment, NPS – albeit straightforward – is only a number, lacking the in-depth implications that number brings and even social listening has its pitfalls: “There is a clear difference in opinion when it’s deliberate and actively shared when people know someone will listen to it vs when they are just shooting to breeze.” Rado continues: “It’s very hard for any organization to change and innovate. Even if they want to do it, it still takes time and effort.” The importance of direct feedback when you would like to be closer to your customer as a brand is huge though: “Consumers care about what you do, and they would like to have the opportunity to tell you that in a constructive way.”

Fundraising

Being a CEO is a bumpy ride and brings its challenges. One part of this is fundraising: “I personally hate fundraising. It’s the worst part of the whole deal.” Nevertheless, it’s an important part of the journey: “It’s not like if you build a great product and have a great idea, people owe it to you to find you and come to you. That’s the big lesson.” The trajectory can often be long and intense, including multiple rejections. Rado emphasizes, however: “You shouldn’t build a thick skin. If it stops hurting, you stop learning.” Ellen adds: “Be prepared to fight a number of wars along the way. Sometimes even after signing.“

Use of Marketing

Another important learning moment involved the use of marketing: “To my understanding, marketing is the all-encompassing effort of presenting yourself out there in the market.” The importance of implementing a marketing strategy early on isn’t always as obvious as you would expect though: “People think my idea is great, so people will come. The product is good so it will sell itself. That’s just not true.”

We understand that you sometimes need a burst of quick and specific marketing knowledge. We can help you with that! Go to www.hellomaas.com to learn more.

Topics

[00:00:00] Intro HelloMasters
[00:00:30] Intro Rado Raykov & Ellen Bark-Lindhout
[00:01:25] Finding the white space

As a consumer myself, I’m often very frustrated by how I am expected to jump through hoops if I want to share my opinion back with decision makers of companies that service me. – Rado

Once you are in a decision making spot, you are distant from your customers, your stakeholders. – Rado

[00:02:50] Having a direct line of contact with your customers

Social media was built for people to interact, not for people to interact with brands. – Rado

[00:07:00] holler.live, their offer and ideal client

It requires a change of mindset. – Rado

We have created a plug and play solution that enables any type of organization to allow their customers to engage at scale, at any touchpoint of their journey. – Rado

[00:10:00] Case study holler.live

[00:12:20] Why would I want to give feedback?

That’s the million-dollar question. Why would you? Unless it’s made as easy as possible. – Rado

This is a tool as much for you as the customer, as it is for us. – Rado

[00:13:44] Changing the mindset of a company

It’s very hard for any organisation to change and innovate. Even if they want to do it, it still takes time and effort. – Rado

You don’t have to change many of your current practices in order to adopt a tool as ours. – Rado

[00:15:23] Social listening

You are risking on making decisions on misinterpreted information at best. – Rado

There are ethical and GDPR constraints. Do people really know that you are listening to them? – Rado

There is a clear difference in opinion when it’s deliberate and actively shared when people know you will listen to it vs when they are just shooting to breeze. – Rado

NPS suffers from the same issue. It is not really aligned with how people actually function. It is one number, it is very simple, but the downside is that it’s homeopathy. – Rado

[00:17:41] Sharing data – showcasing or strategically relevant

Customers are as tired as you from getting emails asking about their opinion [..] That is then data that is a bit useless, because it’s polluted by the way it’s gathered. – Rado

[00:19:40] Summary holler.live – Key takeaway

They care about what you do, and they would like to have the opportunity to tell you that in a constructive way. – Rado

[00:21:30] Preventing extreme behavior and polarization

You can direct the communication flow by limiting the input mechanics. You can use predefined options. – Rado

Organizations are made of humans, but it’s a different beast. – Rado

[00:25:30] holler.live & Collider Amsterdam

It helps to have more mature people that make you slow down and reassess if needed. – Rado

It doesn’t matter what you think as a founder, it matters that the belief is shared. By both team members and clients. – Rado

Even the ones that say no are you best friends because that helps you a lot as well. – Ellen

[00:30:25] Building a team

[00:31:45] Incentivize to work at a startup

You can’t offer the best salary, but you should always offer some sort of buy-in (stocks, equity). – Rado

What it comes down to is actually the vision […] they have to be people that want to work with you on this specific thing. It’s not that romantic, it has ups and downs. – Rado

[00:33:30] Mistakes made

A mistake I made is probably not firing soon enough. – Rado

[00:34:00] Diversity

If you want to make something truly different, you have to approach it from a different way. The way to do that is to have more viewpoints on board. – Rado

The reality is that it’s a richness of perspectives. That’s what it’s about. – Rado

[00:35:10] Fundraising

At the end of the day, the people with the capital choose themselves where they put their money. – Rado

Without trying, at Collider, we have almost 40% of investors that are women. – Ellen

You can try to change the current community to be less biased, or you can try to change the current community. – Ellen

[00:39:25] Diversity clauses

If you want to jumpstart change, you have to break a few eggs so to speak. – Rado

[00:41:13] Approaching fundraising

I personally hate fundraising. It’s the worst part of the whole deal. – Rado

It’s not like if you build a great product and have a great idea, people owe it to you to find you and come to you. That’s the big lesson. – Rado

A big part of my personal journey is to accept that fundraising is part of the job. It involves rejection. – Rado

You shouldn’t build a thick skin. If it stops hurting, you stop learning. – Rado

It could be that there is a war going on after signing your investments. If you find out they are not the right ones in the end, or they have certain unexpected demands. – Ellen

Be prepared to fight a number of wars in the way. But with good preparation, you can prevent a lot of wars as well. That’s what we help them with – Ellen

[00:45:20] Marketing in startups

One of the biggest mistakes we’ve made as a team is not pay enough attention to market as soon as possible. – Rado

We underestimated it. People think my idea is great, so people will come. The product is good so it will sell itself. – Rado

To my understanding, marketing is the all-encompassing effort of presenting yourself out there in the market. – Rado

[00:49:00] Ellen’s advise

Marketing goes all the way up to customer success management. – Ellen

You do need to understand the basics of marketing to understand what kind of people and tools you need. – Ellen

[00:52:00] Predictions for 2019

[00:53:30] Outro

HelloMasters Episode 11

We’re back with a new batch of HelloMasters episode after a short summer break. In our eleventh episode, we speak to Kevin Capota, CMO of L’Oréal Netherlands. We discuss what it takes to be a CMO, digital transformations and the lessons learned in his career.

DNA of L’Oréal

We start our conversation about the DNA of L’Oréal and Kevin’s experience during his career path within the company. Because of his background as a designer, freedom and the space to develop his ideas is something that Capota always valued highly. He states that L’Oréal is a great fit for this: “L’Oréal was founded by an entrepreneur and a scientist, so you have this innovation and entrepreneurial spirit that makes it possible for someone like me to innovate.”

Role of CMO

Kevin’s current role, as CMO of L’Oréal Netherlands, brings a new dynamic to his already impressive career path: “I like the diversity of topics, because it’s such a broad landscape that you touch, from e-commerce, influencers, precision advertising to upscaling.” However, this means that proper time management and keeping focus are of utmost importance. Kevin explains: “For the big topics, I want to have an expert on board who can lead that field.”, allowing him to really focus on creating the right connections.

We continued our conversation to talk about why the role as CMO is often short lived and how Kevin differs from others: “L’Oréal is very much a networking organization, and you need to understand the business, the brands, the products, the culture..[..] so it helps to grow up in the company like how I did first, rather than coming from the outside.”

Learnings from his career

After graduating over eleven years ago, Kevin quickly landed his first job at L’Oréal, as Product Manager. Looking back on his trajectory, we asked him about his biggest learnings: “For me, the biggest learning is to be patient. I was not patient at all. Without it you cannot manage transformation.” He continues: “Sometimes you just need to give others more a bit more time and reassurance. It’s not always possible to go faster.” Failures are not something he truly beliefs in: “When I do a project, and it doesn’t work, I don’t see it as a failure. It’s something I have to learn from and move on.”

We understand that you sometimes need a burst of quick and specific marketing knowledge. We can help you with that! Go to www.hellomaas.com to learn more.

TOPICS

[00:00:00] Intro HelloMasters

[00:00:30] Introduction Louise Doorn

[00:01:20] Introduction Kevin Capota

[00:01:30] ‘Why Kevin does what he does’

[00:03:00] Experience design in marketing

“When I started in 2001, the buzzword was sustainability, and now sustainability is everywhere […] It’s the same with experience design now.”

[00:04:00] DNA of L’Oréal

“I crave freedom en need room to let my ideas out.”

“L’Oréal was founded by an entrepreneur and a scientist, so you have this innovation and entrepreneurial spirit that makes it possible for someone like me to innovate.”

[00:04:55] CMO vs Chief Digital Officer

“I’m both the CMO and CDO basically.”

[00:06:30] Kevin about the positive aspects of his job

“I like the diversity of topics, because it’s such a broad landscape that you touch.”

“For the big topics, I want to have an expert on board who can lead that field.”

[00:07:25] The lifespan of a CMO

“L’Oréal is very much a networking organization, and you need to understand the business, the brands, the products, the culture..[..] so it helps to grow up in the company first, rather than coming from the outside.”

[00:08:30] Innovation and outside-in

“Indeed it’s quite a bit of the same profile, with the same style. We’re looking more and more to bring outside marketeers in.”

“If you have a flexible mindset, and you’re curious, even if you’re a guy who does not relate to make-up, then you can really make it.”

[00:11:00] Digital transformation

“We think of marketing as marketing in a digital age specifically. We have marketeers doing digital.”

“You can’t do anything in one role. A jack of all trades doesn’t work anymore.”

[00:15:20] Prioritizing channels

“That’s the key challenge.”

“Our CDO team will test all the different tools in two or three countries, and then move globally.”

[00:18:05] L’Oréal in the Netherlands

“Because we’re such a down to earth country, you see that we sometimes have to move a bit away from the international guideline.”

[00:19:20] Failures and learnings

“When I do a project, and it doesn’t work, I don’t see it as a failure. It’s something I have to learn from and move on.”

“Sometimes you just need to give others more a bit more time and reassurance. It’s not always possible to go faster.”

“For me, the biggest learning is to be patient. I was not patient at all. Without it you cannot manage transformation.”

[00:21:44] What consumers want and how to involve them

“We have a lot of trend panels and do social listening for every product category on an international level.”

[00:23:50] Trends in channels

“E-commerce is super transparent because of the reviews.”

[00:25:05] Freelancing

“The team of specialists I have, I mostly want to build in-house so they can integrate into the business.”

“However, they can be very helpful to get on board, to launch big releases for instance […] I could definitely use a boost sometimes, as a kickstarter.”

[00:27:15] Agencies and platforms

“We re-educated our marketeers to approach agencies differently. Our Media Manager wants L’Oréal to be the company media agencies want to work for. Because then we get the best people from the agencies.”

[00:29:40] Goal(s) for the next year

“Be stronger involved in our top 6 brands.”

[00:30:50] Advice for Kevin’s 20-year old self

“Don’t be too hard on yourself.”

[00:31:50] Advice for others

“I only have one criteria. I need to keep learning. And L’Oréal offers that.”

“You get opportunities also because of loyalty.”

[00:33:15] Outro

Ah, the freelancer conundrum. Selling your time caps your income. Let’s be realistic, you won’t likely work 40 billable hours a week. It will be more an average of 25 hours you can charge back to clients. If your income model is based on selling hours, there are three scenarios to grow your earnings.

How to increase your revenue

1. You work more hours to make more money. Risk here is burned out, no time for learning, experimenting, networking. Over time you will cannibalize on your value as a marketer if you can’t keep up with new developments.
2. You stretch the time needed to finish the project so the gaps between projects get smaller. The risk here is the perception of not working effectively. Budget spent vs. tangible outcomes might be poor ROI.
3. You increase your hourly rate. With increasing transparency through online platforms, you have to be either very good, work for top tier clients, be very fast and/or have unique skill sets to justify a higher rate.

Let’s do the math

Say your desired gross revenue per year is €70.000. Add another €12.000 for expenses. That’s €82.000. If you multiply 40 workweeks x 25 hours = 1.000 billable hours annually. Then divide €82.000 by 1,000. That gives you an hourly rate of €82. That rate might price you out of the average client’s budget and limit you to mainly corporate clients, whereas you might also want to work for startups or SMB’s (small and medium businesses). Not to fret, though. Three things to futureproof your freelance career:

1. Create a fixed price model to increase your income
2. Consider accepting equity in a start-up that you really believe in.
3. Create subscription pricing models.

Meet Sophie, a social media marketer in fashion, working as a freelancer for 6 years with top-tier brands in usually 4-6 month projects for 3-4 days a week. She not only created the Instagram strategy at Tommy Hilfiger across Europe but also introduced and ran influencer marketing for G-Star.

Sophie knows fashion from the inside out. She recently noticed a lot of purpose-driven fashion tech startups and boutiques in the cute 9 streets of Amsterdam in need of smart marketing. Those companies would love to work with Sophie, however, her hourly rate at €75 is steep for SMB’s and start-ups.

Bring back the FREE in freelancing

Since Sophie has gained tangible experience and knows which tools, KPI’s and content tactics matter, so she will be very efficient in delivering her packages. Sophie can supply two packages:

1. Social media starter package for fashion brands.
2. Monthly Instagram content, engagement and growth package

Each package will have a detailed scope, price and social proof. For clients there are no budget surprises or disappointments about work done. For Sophie it will bring back FREE in freelancing, since most packages can be worked when, where and how it fits her calendar. When clients are happy Sophie will use ratings and reviews as social proof, allowing to charge more premium pricing over time. With a clear understanding of the scope, she can repeat this package and the process for multiple clients, reducing her time needed in total.

Example of a package on the HelloMaaS platform:

Benefits of supplying fixed price packages :

1. Be in control Get rid of the uncertainty that comes with hourly rate pricing and boost your revenue by offering your experiences, know-how and drive as a package.
2. Be transparent When you price your package according to client results, and your expertise, clients will have a better understanding of “what’s in it for them” and be more open to accepting your proposal.
3. Be free Packages are about output. Many clients don’t mind where and when you work as long as you deliver, communicate well and consistently.
4. Worry less Future proof your freelance career with HelloMaaS

If you are a marketing freelancer with recent work experience in the Netherlands, supply a package! We will help you onboard.

Supply a package

HelloMaaS will selectively promote packages, so you can focus on creative and effective marketing with your new clients. You might be surprised at how much your income, productivity and sense of true agency will increase. Our product owner Adrian worked hard to build a simple way to create your package. If you’re not sure about pricing, scoping or how to describe your package, Naia, our customer success manager is happy to help.

You can send them a message at member@hellomaas.com